April 27th, 2007
What Would You Do In This Situation?
My good friend, Andy Tanner, called me up a couple nights ago asking for my advice. Andy is the former singer/songwriter of a band we worked with called Laymen Terms. If you are ever looking for an incredibly beautiful indie/emo record, look no further than “Drive to Nowhere”. Anyways, Andy recently recorded a full length album and has been sending it out to various labels. I had told him to send a copy to Deep Elm as the record is a really great emo/indie record and I could see the label enjoying his music. He sent the recording to Deep Elm and shortly after, he was contacted by John, the owner, about his upcoming volume of Emo Diaries which he was accepting submissions for. He wrote Andy saying that he would like to put one of the songs, “Ghostman” on the latest Emo Diaries but by accepting, he would have to agree not to release the song for 2 years. The problem is that in naming the album that Andy recently recorded, he had decided to name the album, “Ghostman”, after one of the album’s standout tracks.
So the dilemma for those keeping score is that Andy could have his new project featured on the latest Deep Elm compilation, Emo Diaries. This compilation spot could give him some great exposure and could potentially gain him some new fans. In accepting though, one of the strongest tracks will have to be omitted from his soon to be debut album. What if a label wants to sign him on the strength of his demo package and he now has to tell those labels that the title track from his album is no longer an available track, at least for 2 years.
We spoke about this at length about the pluses and negatives and when I got off the phone, he had yet to make up his mind.
What would you do? Please only post serious replies; and no quips about the name Emo Diaries are necessary.
Written by Virgil Dickerson
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On April 27th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Sean-Michael Dore said:
Character comes into play here… is putting 1 song on a compilation CD worth losing a great song for 2 years and having to rename something larger (the album)? I don’t think so.
On April 27th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Sarah said:
I feel you, but having gone through a similar issue myself, my advice is to go with the compilation, and write a new song for the album. If you wrote a good one before, you can write a better one now, and then you’ll have another standout track.
On April 27th, 2007 at 9:35 am
will said:
Keep the song…especially if it is the centerpiece for the album.
On April 27th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Joshua said:
I think you need to keep the song, it seems as if it’s too important to the album.
On April 27th, 2007 at 10:15 am
brett said:
Hard to say without knowing the quality of the rest of the songs on his album, but I would probably go with the compilation. Like Sarah says, just write another song for the original album, and maybe rename the album. I am just finishing my first album, and I would not hesitate if someone offered me some help like this.
If the rest of the songs on the album can’t hold up on their own, then maybe he should rethink releasing the album in the first place (but I would still release the one song on the compilation).
On April 27th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Corey said:
Compilations are dead in my book. Keep the tune.
On April 27th, 2007 at 10:35 am
mya said:
Jack Johnson was in a similar situation early in his carer. He had just made his first demo and there was a song (his best at the time) called “Rodeo Clowns”. G Love heard the song and flipped out, really wanted to cover the song. Jack felt like he was in a delema, should he give his best song away ? Should he hold on to it ? Will he get the full credit he deserves ? What if he wants to put “rodeo clowns” on his own debut record ? Will people think he is covering a G Love song ? He thought about it for a little while and then came to the conclusion that if he is ever going to be considered a great artist it wont be on the merit of one song. He will need to continue to grow as an artist with the hopes of his best music always being in front of him not behind him. GLove did the song, asked jack to do a co-lead vocal, Jack put out his own record (without Rodeo Clowns on it), it went HUGE and now GLOVE puts out his records through Jacks Brushfire records. In short, To have any longstanding success your best art should always be on the horizon not in the rear view mirror.
On April 27th, 2007 at 11:01 am
Jordan Pastepunk said:
I’m a huge fan of the Emo Diaries series and own each of the volumes, but I think it’s hard to dispute that the compilation’s ‘promotional value’ isn’t quite what it used to be. If the song is that integral to the way Andy feels about the demo, which is something only the artist can truly analyze, I don’t think it’s worth disrupting that for the sake of the value of being on the compilation.
On April 27th, 2007 at 11:32 am
hed028 said:
KEEP the SONG!!!!!! If Deep Elm really likes his band, they will take another song. And there’s no way you can justify signing a 2 year exclusivity deal. Hell, major labels probably wouldn’t even expect that.
3-6 months sure, that sounds reasonable…. and maybe a promise not to use the song on other compilations. But, it shouldn’t matter if the song surfaces on your own album. The comp will be a catalog piece at that point, and Deep Elm will be on to promoting the next thing.
On April 27th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Jeremy said:
Keep the song. No one buys comps anymore.
On April 27th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Seth Progression said:
Maybe he could negotiate something with Deep Elm in between 2 years and not being on the comp at all. For example, maybe agreeing to not release that recording for 15 months, but to also promise to not release any re-recording for 9 months.
On April 27th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Tom said:
2 years is ridiculous. fuck the emo diaries, like said above, compilations are dead and obsolete and he would get more exposure by putting the song up for download.
On April 27th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
jim santo said:
Comps are not the vehicle for your best material. That’s where you put “deep album cuts” (to use a quaint term) that might not otherwise get exposure. Keep the song!
On April 27th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Chris Vandeviver said:
Definitely keep the song. Perhaps if it was a comp to be handed out for free by the bucket load at Warped Tour, but I can’t think of anyone who would pay for a comp in this day and age.
On April 27th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Scott said:
There is zero exposure given from the Emo Diaries comps nowadays. There hasn’t been a truly relevant one since the first edition (Jimmy Eat World, Jejune, Pohgoh, Samiam, etc.), and there hasn’t been any band who have gone on to do something big with their career since the fourth volume (Further Seems Forever and the Movielife). Since then, they’ve all been waterlogged with 17th rate Appleseed Cast ripoffs from Europe.
Not to mention Deep Elm charges full price for these comps. Full price for a comp??? Sure, it may all be “exclusive” material, but why in the hell would I drop 12-14 bucks for a comp full of complete unknowns?
On April 27th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
toby said:
I have always been against exclusive deals. If they want to own his song, the one that ties the album together, I think he should keep it. I agree you can always write more songs, but as a songwriter I can tell you, sometimes you just can’t recreate a really good song. You don’t just decide to write an amazing song. Hell, I would stick him on a compilation for free and let him keep all the rights.
On April 27th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Nick Dominguez said:
Keep the track. I can tell you from when I was in a band that had one of our tracks submitted to the Emo Diaries 4 “Ocean of Doubt” comp it didn’t really do anything for us in terms of exposure and not having the ability to release the track on our own for 2 years was pretty annoying. Not worth it.
On April 28th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Scott said:
Woah, it’s a guy from Further Seems Forever! I always thought “Vengeance Factor” was one of your best songs, by the way.
On April 28th, 2007 at 11:04 am
bill said:
In this day and age, a comp CD ain’t what it used to be. I could see a 120 day exclusive to let them sell it… or exclusive rights to that recording /mix of the song, but a full re-record restriction for 2 years seems a little out of line. Maybe if they’re paying a huge advance. (chuckle)
On April 28th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Stephen said:
Comps are worth nothing…unless they’re the Emo Diaries. There was mourning in the punk/emo community when they killed the series, and there was excitement that it was being brought back.
It’s tough to lose the title track, for sure - my first thought would be to explain that it’s the title track and that losing it would cripple the album and potentially the band’s future for two years. Then I’d shoot for getting another track on the album. If they only want the title track, I’d probably turn it down, as awesome as the opportunity to be on an emo diaries comp would be.
On April 29th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Shaun said:
While I do agree with and respect the efforts of compilation albums it does seem like the day of the comp is up. Fair enough if the purpose of the release was as a sampler of new talent and was offered as a promotional item or even bundled with each deep elm release I could see the reasoning behind it, however to ask almost full price for what is now available on websites such as pure volume, myspace or last.fm is a little too much.
To then ask for exclusive rights for 2 years is terrible, I would keep the track and have an album I was truely happy with.
P.s. Great blog you have here Virgil I loved reading the interviews, great insight into the world of the label :)
On April 30th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Cococo said:
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Get your music out there. Do the comp, but renegotiate the two years.
On May 2nd, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Jaime said:
I’m not quite certain I understand what a label has to gain by keeping the song “exclusive” for such a long period of time. In the current climate I would think adding a “Also featured on Emo Diaries #?” on Andy’s record might send a few people who have never heard of Deep Elm’s product in that direction.
I’m sure I’m being naive, but I think hands need to be washing each other before the whole industry becomes extinct. If you’re U2 or Green Day, I can see the type of money involved, but seriously, does anybody really stand to lose anything by helping each other’s cause in this case?
As it stands I say keep the song.