IndieHQ / Article Detail

Comments So Far...

1. On April 19th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
   jacobe said:

   I think the letter is great.

2. On April 19th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
   Jason said:

   im curious as to what everyone’s thoughts are on blogs that post out of print albums without the labels consent? considering they no long print them, would it be a problem?

3. On April 19th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
   Katie said:

   Well that’s stupid. I’ve never heard of Kinixtion but it sounds like a file-sharing type thing. They haven’t sued Limewire. Why are they sueing a 16 year old girl? She’s a kid. Kids make mistakes. I’m sure she understands how big of a mistake she made. Also, Eyeball Records could have been nicer about it instead of being so rude. I don’t believe they are doing the right thing. It’s pretty much a waste of time if you ask me.

4. On April 19th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
   sam said:

   because that letter was the most professional thing i have ever read. you and the bands have every right to be angered, but learn how to handle a situation first. you are a perfect example as to why the music industry has a reputation for being cut throat. it’s the assholes behind the labels.

5. On April 19th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
   Lackey said:

   http://imthescene.blogspot.com/ also hosts your bands music files.

6. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
   ryan said:

   ya thats a pretty dick email. no lawsuit would hold up with the record label making “estimates” as to how many downloads there were for each album posted. you’re lucky you found a 16 year old girl because anyone else would see how bullshit that claim is.

7. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
   Damon said:

   Hey Mario,

   I’ve forwarded your blog information along to some people. I see a great Friday in store for you.

8. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
   1000cleverlines said:

   I shut down because Wizard didn’t want a lawsuit. We were affliated with them and knew that we would be next. They obviously were close to us if they saw we shut down. We promoted the bands, and everyone knows that the bigger bands don’t make ANY money. I chose not to post from indie bands unless I had their consent (Bridgeford and Kill Your Ex). If you have a problem with our blogs then we have a problem with you. Don’t talk shit about us and we won’t talk shit about you….. We pirates stick together when this shit happens and 1000cleverlines will return…. If you have a problem with me email me: dylmans@aol.com or IM me at dylmans and we will discuss our points of views like rational people.

   1000cleverlines

9. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
   Lucifer Box said:

   How can any of you call this guy an asshole?!?! Seriously!! Look at what is happenening to the music industry now! From a naive scene kids point of you, you just want the freshest newest bullshit-ore you can get you mits on and then show them off to your friends on your latest ipod. But think about how much money an indie label has to cough up in order for there signings to make a release. Now you all bitch about bands don’t make any money from the recordings. Yes that may be true, they make very little back unless their first album is multi million selling and there advance was tiny. But bands make there living on the road, and how do they get onto the road, via the labels and other sponsors. Now the labels take a large cut from album sales, but thats only because theyve had to stump up 1000’s of $’s or £’s in order for it to be released! I can’t believe how dumb some people are. Indie labels make very little eyeball records has produced some awsome bands that you all still probably love, but you wouldn’t know what label a bands on as you only download the music. If you want the industry to die, carry on creating blogs with these albums for download. If you still want to see your favorite bands release music then once in a while go fucking buy a cd, buy a concert ticket, fuck, buy a friggin t-shirt off them. How would you feel if someone had stolen something you created or spent money on, only to distribute it to anyone or anybody who has a computer?? You’d be pissed off! So he has every right to be as sarcastic or rude as he wants, he’s only asking for whats rightfuly his! What people have been taking is their property, just because someone might own the cd, doesn’t mean they own how to disribute it. It clearly states in the copyright law, that if you purchase a cd you’re not even meant to let anyone else hear it!!!!!! Go check if you don’t believe me!!!

   ASSHOLES

10. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
    eek said:

    i think that letter was quite rude, the same message could have been delivered without the threats and anguish it probably caused to that 16 year old girl. luckily we all eventually get what we deserve. you can threaten all the pre-adults you want, but it will do little to benefit your label. most of the people who are well educated enough of the internet who know of blog spots, knew well before that of torrent sites, which are protected by law. there are an endless amount of files opportunities there, that to you would be most likely appalling. p2p servers barely give you shit, if anything, to an indie label their beneficial, seeing how if your bands are really that broke on the road, you’ll only find a song or two on the p2p network, allowing them to preview the band. unfortunetly for you, the majority rules in this world, and the majority doesnt want to spend a dollar a song, or 12 dollars a cd, especially when many on a cd end up being intro, interludes, and exits. if people really liked the bands, and thought the band was deserving of being purchased, theyd buy the cd. all these industry claims just make it more money orientated, when id like to think bands make major commitments over going into music to have their music listened to and loved, not because they see a number attached to it.

11. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
    eek said:

    also, downloading the albums won’t kill the music industry, the industry is founded on people who want to create music for real reasons. you could bankrupt every label, and there would still be people driving around in vans just to show everyone what they created, because their proud of it. i would feel delighted if people liked my music enough so that its been spread across the country, which ever way it was done.

12. On April 19th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
    stevey pumpkin said:

    Even with illegal internet pirating independant artists of today are FAR better off than any pre-internet bands ever could have. The internet and blogs like kinixtion and thousandcleverlines provides exposure to people all over the world with the click of a button. What is niave is thinking that bands like the number 12 looks like you who have such limited appeal would be able to build a fanbase large enough to still be recording today without internet exposure, good and bad alike. Sure the label and band would probably be making a little more money without blogs like kinixtion but that amount is most certainly negligible. Besides u cant please all the people all the time and right now those people are the ASSHOLES AT EYEBALL!

    sincerely, Stevey Pumpkin

13. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
    stevey pumpkin said:

    oh yeah, Victory records did something similar to a few blogs that i will not mention for fear of feeding them to the wolves on this site. The difference between victory’s request and eyeball’s is that the people at victory records werent complete dicks about it, their letter was very professional, and genuine. They simply asked for their material to be removed and the request was obliged.

    Sincerely, Stevey Pumpkin

14. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
    1000cleverlines said:

    yes i agree victory was more polite and their demands were taken very seriously with no trouble. This just pushes it in my opinion….

    also, i goto shows and buy merch all the time. i support bands. i just believe that record companies should give more to bands. I had rarely posted anything from true indie labels.

15. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
    will said:

    Wow, this post might even break the Elliott Yamin comment record.

    Honestly, is this what Indie labels have come to? Stooping to major label thugishness of threatening lawsuits…uh, sorry this just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    Sites like this are not going to stop and file-sharing will continue to grow. Indie and major labels alike need to come to that realization and move forward.

    Stop wasting time composing threatning letters to 16 y/o girls and spend that time thinking of creative new ways to run your business. Because you have made it perfectly clear that is all it is to you…a business. If it was about the music…well, would we even be discussing this?

16. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
    mike said:

    First I do understand how the labels are getting mad, of coarse its because their getting cheated out of their money. And our whole purpose in life is to see “who can get the most money.” But go out there and find ANY band, and ask them where they would be with out music being shared. They would still be at home playing their tiny local shows, making less money than they make now. The evolution of download music has helped SO many bands get known. It gives kids a chance to hear them first, and helps them spread the word of the band. Nobody is going to go out and spend the ridiculous $18 for cd’s now, especially when they have no idea who they are.

17. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
    Pirate said:

    In case Marc didn’t know providing links on your site is not illegal seeing as how the copyrighted material is not hosted on your site. With this logic he should go ahead and sue Google.

    You may want to check the facts before spewing bullshit and making yourself look retarded.

18. On April 19th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
    Grant said:

    1) The wording/tone of the letter to Kinixtion was perfectly acceptable. The site owner was not abused and wild accusations were not made. If you think the tongue-in-cheek attitude conveyed was disrespectful, look at the bigger picture here.

    2) Eyeball is perfectly entitled to take a hard line, because whether they knew the owner was a 16 year old girl or not, her actions do necessitate a legal threat.

    3) Everyone here who has suggested that label owners are “assholes” is misinformed and naive. If you were pouring all of your time and energy into promoting a healthy and productive music industry, wouldn’t you feel a little aggrieved if you discovered individuals were distributing your records for free?

    4) There WILL be some impact from the letter. The fact that it had an effect on the first attempt, and even prompted other sites into closure, is enough to show that it works. It may never eradicate illegal file-sharing, but if you look at the 632 downloads of New Atlantic’s album, for example, what if only 5% of those people ended up buying the record instead? That’s over 30 extra copies of the album sold, and more money to continue to fund the band and their label. And if you were in the label’s position, you’d certainly want to recoup your (deserved) profits if all it takes is emailing the occasional website.

    5) The average musician earns less than the national average wage. Why not help them reap the benefits of their work?

    I hope this letter has a great effect on the file-sharing community. I’m all for sampling music but at the end of the day, I’d feel guilty if I didn’t give credit where it’s due.

19. On April 19th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
    EscapeKrypton said:

    Ok sooooo i have a shit load of cd’s Bought myself. I do download music. But i do not believe this is hurting the music industry one bit. I listen to stuff i have never heard before by downloading fall in love with it go see them buy cds and such. I am in a band my self and i would not care if people were downloading my music, infact i would love it. It gets our name out more.

20. On April 19th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
    wake up said:

    Recording labels are under the fallacious assumption that those who download albums would purchase them, if given no other option. There is no one to one correlation here, the majority of bands suck, plain and simple. That is the reason for most labels struggling to make money.

    For small label bands, p2p is by far the best thing that could have happened to them. There are very few of these bands that are able to make a living off of being a band, the biggest impediment is exposure, that’s why they tour tour tour tour tour their asses off (in which case they can take a large percentage of ticket sales and merch sales, at least in most cases). The only way they are going to get the kids to come out to the shows is by getting their music out there, if it is via illegal internet downloading, so be it. Is the label opposed to the direct copying of CDs? How many times in my life have I introduced people to new bands by burning them a copy of an album, the number is more than I can count on my two hands. These are people who would have never heard of the band, never would have gone to their concert, never would have bought an album because they never heard of the band.

    The music industry is a hard business. If you are a band and you expect to make a living off of it, you are delusional. You are lucky to have people willing to support you, period. If you deserve it, the fans will be there, the support will be there, and if you’re lucky maybe some money too. Wake up, get your ass out of your beta-max player.

21. On April 20th, 2007 at 1:49 am
    Peter Gunz said:

    I love how the guy from Eyeball complains about how they work for free, yet they have the money to hire a lawyer to sue this girl on the blog. Most indies don’t have the money to hire a lawyer. So all I have to say is let them write you a second notice or wait till you get a cease and desist letter from a lawyer before you shut down.

22. On April 20th, 2007 at 1:58 am
    GumGum said:

    Well done Eyeball, you’ve just lost the best form of free promotion your bands could ever of wished for. Way to look at the big picture boys, fan downloads album, fan falls in love with band, fan buys album and checks band out live. Pricks With Ears.

23. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:16 am
    yvern said:

    music isnt about the fuckin money. why dont these no good sell out realize that. great bands go on tour and come back home broke then go work at food lion or something for money till they tour again. thats the real shit. you dunno how many times you hear of a band from word of mouth of a friend and download the cd and your at the bands fuckin concert the next week and bought shirts and other cds. haha gg fuckin blow it

24. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:29 am
    kthnxbye said:

    so i guess the music industry isnt about the music anymore, now its about the money…i have so many friends in bands that really dont give a shit about how much money they make playing music, they will play dive bars and clubs for kids and drive around the country in a run down van with just enough $$ to make it where they need to go, because they love what they do, not because of how much money they will make. if you ask me, the best kind of bands are the ones that do everything they do, all the hardwork for their fans, not for the paychecks. and, if somebody in a band was REALLY concerned about making money, wouldnt they have chose a profession that gaurenteed them a comfortable wage? i would think so…and about $35,000 total that is a lot of money but i wonder…how much of that entire amount acutally goes to the band, not a lot thats for sure. its nice to see that labels like eyeball and bands like number 12 are on the page with britney spears…oh greed, is such an entertaining thing!!!

25. On April 20th, 2007 at 6:10 am
    Virgil said:

    Wow, I blown away by the number of comments. I just logged onto my computer about 15 minutes ago and saw over 30 comments to this post. I am glad that this is creating a discussion about music, money, business, and retail prices.

    I run a small label, Suburban Home Records, and I must say that Peer to Peer is really hurting my business. I don’t consider myself greedy when I say this. To give you an example of how this has affected my business, next week, we are moving from an office to my house and cutting over half of our staff because we can’t afford to continue to do this. I know that when my bands tour, people are singing along to almost every song throughout their entire set and I know how many copies of the CD/digital has sold. The numbers do not add up.

    The one thing that needs to be considered is that without labels investing in unknown groups, some of your favorite bands would never have been able to put out the incredible music they put out. It takes thousands of dollars to put a band in a decent studio so that there is a great sounding recording. When labels can’t recoup that money back, they can’t put more money into their label so that they can bring new acts to light.

    I agree with a number of the comments posted especially the ones mentioning their frustration at CD prices. My label offers any 5 Suburban Home releases for $25.00, a cost of only $5.00 per CD. With that amount, my label can make money as can my bands.

    I think peer to peer has some great qualities as you can sample anything you want. I just ask that if you find an act that you absolutely love through file-sharing, why not buy their CD or digital music. Subscribe to a site like Emusic which is only 9.99 a month for 30 drm free mp3s. There are inexpensive options out there and when fans stop buying music all together, indie labels suffer the most.

26. On April 20th, 2007 at 6:20 am
    The Man, The Myth, The Legend said:

    Listen to all the spoiled brats throw a hissy fit. “WAAAAAAAAAAH I CAN’T GET MY MUSIC FREE ANYMORE WHAAAAA EYEBALL RECORDS ARE MEANIE HEADS!!”

    Get over it. Crying over professionalism when you are stealing from someone is pretty hypocritical. I mean, why not just walk up to a cop and punch them in the face and when they are beating the crap out of you, tell them they have to act professional. Good one guys.

    And the “why are they going after a 16 year old girl” bullshit has GOT to stop. ANYONE that has the understanding and ability to build up a blog, rip and upload CD’s, and link them on a website CLEARLY knows what they are doing. 7 year olds are kids. 11 year olds are kids. 16 year olds can drive a car in most states.

    And here’s another one for you braniacs that seem to know it all, why would a little label like Eyeball Records waste their time going after Limewire? Do me a favor right now, go type New London Fire into Limewire and see how many responses you get. Since I know most of you are lazy and incompetent, judging by the fact that you can’t march down to a store and buy a CD, I made the search for you and came up with a big fat NADDA on the search results. So how about them apples? Whodathunk a little ‘ol blog was doing more damage to Eyeball Records than the almighty Limewire? Plus, I think it’s a safe bet that the richer powers of the RIAA are going to be taking care of Limewire shortly, so why should a small label like Eyeball Records waste their resources doing it for them? Use have a brain cell and figure that one out.

    And I am so tired of the sorry, played out line of “how am I going to know if I am going to like it if I can’t hear it first?” Hello jackass, how am I going to know if I like broccoli or sauerkraut before I eat it? You don’t need to listen to an entire album to make that decision. And another bullshit line is “how do I know I’ll like the whole thing?” Please, if I can find an album that has 3-4 songs on it that I love, sign my ass up, that is incredible. I have well over 1200 CD’s (you know, the real thing) in my collection and I don’t even think I need one hand to count the albums that I own that I like EVERY-SINGLE-SONG on. Hell, I don’t even like every song on my favorite bands GREATEST HITS CD, and hello, it’s a GREATEST HITS CD. Who’s the asshole now?

    Another “great argument” is calling the record label greedy and asking how much the band gets out of all the money they want to charge Kinxwhatever. I’ve got a better question for you: how much did The Number 12 Looks Like You have to pay to record, press, distribute and promote any of their Eyeball Records releases? Now I don’t know the band, but I know a lot of bands much, much bigger than them, and I can pretty much assure you it was a big fat ZERO.

    For all you know-it-alls out there, do you have any idea how most labels operate? Why CD sales are so important? And better yet, why the bands don’t see as much profit off the CD’s? Well oh wise keyboard warriors, it’s because record labels are glorified banks, and they give out loans to bands to make music. They front all the money, and the band pays that money back in CD sales. The bands do all the work to make the music, the label does all the work to get it in stores. When they make enough money to pay off the debt required to create the CD, known as “recouping,” the can then start reinvesting money into the band and the band can start making money off the CD.

    That’s called business. Do you know what happens to bands that don’t sell enough CD’s to pay back their loans? It’s the same thing that happens to a home owner if they don’t pay their mortgage: they lose everything. Because whether you give a shit or not, the record label will get their money back one way or another, and that doesn’t make them evil or assholes, it means that they did their part and the band has to hold up on the agreement. Does anyone get mad at the bank when they repossess a car that someone hasn’t been paying for? Absolutely not, what’s right is right.

    So next time your favorite band breaks up, and you’re all sad and mad and glad you bought the TShirt to support them but didn’t buy the CD because the labels are dirty assholes, you might want to rethink your life.

    The sad and unfortunate part in all of this, is that the people that are right in all of this are the assholes, and the people that are wrong are just spewing bullshit line after bullshit line thinking that if they say it enough, people will believe it. Well it’s time you clowns got your facts straight and learned a valuable lesson.

    Justify your actions every way you want, complain about professionalism, complain about global warming, I don’t care, bottom line is: Eyeball Records is right, you are wrong, EVERY-SINGLE-TIME. Period. Case closed. I’ve got two great websites for all of you to check out:

    www.myspace.com/
    www.purevolume.com/

    See the back slash at the end? Try adding your favorite band’s name to it and see if they have a page. Guess what they have there? Songs you can hear! And preview! Some of them even have their entire album streaming!! And videos! Imagine that? If that’s not enough for you, then I guess you’re up shits creak without a paddle.

    I want a lot of things. I want a new car. I want another dog. I want a new camera. I want the new Haste The Day CD. Guess what all of those have in common. Actually, we’ll be here all day if I wait for an answer, so I’ll just tell you: I don’t have a right to have any of them if I don’t buy them.

    Period.

    Would you walk into Best Buy and grab a computer and walk out with it? Would you grab a candy bar and walk out with it? Would you grab a CD and walk out with it? You know, without paying. If you answered no to any of those questions, then why do you think it’s OK to do the same thing on the internet just because it’s easier? And don’t give me that crap of “oh well a car costs way more than a CD, of course that’s wrong.” Would you steal batteries from CVS? A tshirt from Hot Topic? There, I put them in the same price range. Deal with it. And if you answered yes to any of my questions in this paragraph, I guess that just speaks for your character more than anything, and makes the reason this is even a topic for debate more painstakingly obvious.

    Welcome to the real world ladies. The real world is full of things you want and have to work for. Music is NO DIFFERENT. If you can’t afford to buy the CD or go to the shows, then I guess you’re just going to have to settle for the content they give you for free. Because you know, that’s just the way the real world works. I’d love to have season tickets for the Red Sox, but I’ll settle for the two or three games I can afford to go to this year. On the same token, I don’t plan on walking up to Fenway and just walking in without a ticket, either.

    Grow up. All of you. You KNOW the blogs are wrong, you KNOW it’s stealing, and you KNOW the record label is right, EVERY TIME. Deal with it.

27. On April 20th, 2007 at 7:09 am
    Corey said:

    “EscapeKrypton: Ok sooooo i have a shit load of cd’s Bought myself. I do download music. But i do not believe this is hurting the music industry one bit.”

    COME ON! Even though I would like to think half of the above comments were written by the same person using different “names” (unless you all come from some thread in a music pirating forum), this is just terrible. Downloading doesn’t hurt the music industry one bit? And now you are going to tell me that we are not contributing to the warming of the Earth by burning fossil fuels and it’s all just a climate cycle of the Earth.

    If you dig into this blog, you will find that downloading does indeed hurt the music industry a lot. Every aspect of it, even the majors. Sites like the one Eyeball targeted are simply terrible and it sucks that loopholes exist where they can get away with posting “links” because it’s not hosted directly on their server.

    Elliot Yamin sucks!

28. On April 20th, 2007 at 8:10 am
    Stu said:

    It’s all relative really. I’ve bought a number of cds that if I’d been able to hear before hand I wouldn’t have got them. By the same thing, there’s some cds I’ve bought because I’ve heard them through a download.

    Plus it’s not always easy for people to just go out and buy the cd. Sometimes cd’s are hard to find, especially by smaller lesser known artists. Sometimes cd’s aren’t even out in the country someone lives in. Why should someone pay double or more to have it iported when they could just get it downloaded and then buy it if it’s eventually released there?

    People say about looking at the big picture, but the big picture is the world is a very big place and some places have a harder time getting music then others.

    At least through sites like that, people aren’t using stuff like limewire (which I’ve used before and it’s not always accurate, plus there’s a chance someone could get a virus through it).

29. On April 20th, 2007 at 8:11 am
    Bret said:

    I think the letter was bullshit. Eyeball Records really did just lose a fuckload of free advertisement. And they needed all they could get because pretty much every band on the label is shit. Besides, it’s not like one shitty ass letter from some tool is going to stop internet downloading. I am 100% positive that nothing could do that right now. The only thing they did was make sure noone heard their shitty labels music without paying the money that they are trying to leech off kids who barely have the money to eat sometimes. They didn’t take that into perspective, how many of the peoploe who downloaded the cds couldn’t afford to buy them? Fuck you, Eyeball Records.

30. On April 20th, 2007 at 8:25 am
    Tom said:

    Over the last 12 months I’ve been very fortunate to be able to interview some awesome bands who tour there asses off trying to make a living. They almost all agree that P2P and illegal downloads are HURTING them way more than it helps them. Theres been quite a few bands breaking up because they simply can’t sell enough CD’s.

    Also with less people buying music the record labels can’t promote bands as much as they’d like and therefore they aren’t reaching the audience they should. All of you shouting but more people are hearing them because I can get it for free I hate to burst your bubble but less people will be hearing them. Labels are really struggling, if they havent got your support they won’t take chances on any new artists and the music industry will grow stagnate as bands simply can’t afford to put out there own stuff.

    A case in point is a friends band, There about to go into the studio for a second time with a pretty good producer to finish off there EP, the studio time alone will have cost them over £1500 then there going to want to get at least a 500 pressing at £500 and maybe send £100 promoting it, bringing us to a grand total of £2100 ($3900 i think). Safe to say there all broke. Most bands simply can’t afford the studio time, and most bands don’t know the best way to promote themselves and this is where the label comes in. It doesn’t matter if the webmaster is 16 or 60 its still stealing.

31. On April 20th, 2007 at 8:41 am
    IhateMarc said:

    Exposure is the name of the game, and what you’re doing is incredibly lame.

32. On April 20th, 2007 at 9:10 am
    vicki said:

    “Jason Says:

    April 19th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
    im curious as to what everyone’s thoughts are on blogs that post out of print albums without the labels consent? considering they no long print them, would it be a problem? ”

    I don’t think that should be a problem. Once a album is out of print that means that the label isn’t producing the album anymore. So niether the label or the artist are making money off of it right?

    I am on both sides for this.
    For one downloading is a good thing. Espeically for the albums you can’t find in stores or are out of print. If I can’t find something at any of record stores near me then I download it. I will go out and buy sooner or later if it isn’t out of print.
    On the other hand, by downloading albums you can find in stores you are hurting labels and artist. Yes, I have download albums by artist that I can find in stores but I do eventually go out and buy them. I like having the actual thing in my hands.

33. On April 20th, 2007 at 9:13 am
    Your mother said:

    Paulenators blog was shut down before you idiots sent out the letter. Stop thinking you guys are cool.
    Your bands suck hard anyway.

34. On April 20th, 2007 at 9:38 am
    Seth Progression said:

    I think there are more comments here than on the Elliott Yamin thread! Woah. Throw in some juggalos here and we are in business.

35. On April 20th, 2007 at 10:16 am
    Scott said:

    The Man, The Myth, The Legend said everything I wanted to say, only better and funnier.

    Hey kids — grow the fuck up, get a job and use the money you make to buy things you’d like to own. You’re currently sitting in your parents’ house on broadband internet they pay for, eating their food, wearing the clothes they buy for you and essentially leeching off of them until adulthood. You have minimal expenses if any. Stop this bullshit about the prices of CDs. If it’s that big of a deal, buy ‘em used — that way you don’t support the band OR the label (hey, it’s just like illegal downloading!).

    Idiots.

36. On April 20th, 2007 at 10:29 am
    King of Music said:

    Now hows about we here from a real indie pioneer. Ian MacKaye. Here’s what he thinks from an interview at the now defunct downhillbattle.org:

    “NICHOLAS: So what do you think about, with all the technology changes that we’re seeing, how do you feel about people downloading your music from filesharing networks?

    IAN: Oh, I’m happy to have them download the music, it doesn’t bother me at all, because that’s why I made the music, because I want people to hear it, that’s it, that’s the point. And obviously, someone selling it? They’re fucked. But that would just be another example of the sort of avarice and greed that exist in this music world.
    “Any way that Fugazi or any band on Dischord or any kind of underground music, any way we have for people to be able to check it out and have access to the world at large, I’m all for.”

    HOLMES: You mean if someone’s copying your music and selling your songs …

    IAN: Yeah, if someone’s selling downloads and collecting money for our songs I would be unhappy about that but if they’re trading it I don’t mind, obviously if I make a thousand records or CDs or whatever, I like to sell a thousand. I don’t need all the plastic. Obviously I would like people to support us, that’d be great. But at the end of the day, I’d rather people hear the music. You know I don’t own any Bob Dylan music, well actually I think I do, but you know when I was growing up I didn’t, but I certainly knew his music because of the radio, I didn’t pay for that. I only mention him because I just mentioned him, I’m not saying like “Oh he’s a huge Bob Dylan fan”, I’m just saying that I do have respect for a lot of his work, and I’m glad to have been able to hear it and I think radio is so crucial to be able to have that. And frankly, though I actually recently got DSL, which has certainly helped in the terms of downloading songs, and I found the process a little bit frustrating because everyone seems to be putting up ‘in the joint’ or ‘get the pay’ or whatever, but when I first heard about napster, and those kinds of things, the orignal napster, the idea of having a resource where you could hear music– it was a giant resource library– was so intoxicating to me. I thought it was the most amazing thing in the world. Most music will never be made available commercially because it just doesn’t make any sense for it to be made available commercially, you’ll never sell enough copies to merit it, but I want to hear Hendrix practicing something, I want to hear a weird Al Jolson recording, I want to hear these things. The idea of going to a computer and listening to them once or twice like you heard them on the radio I think is incredible. But if I downloaded something and it just blew my mind, you’d better believe I’d go and try and find the fucking record if I could, if one existed. So from my point of view, any way that Fugazi or any band on Dischord or any kind of underground music, any way we have for people to be able to check it out and have access to the world at large, I’m all for. Obviously the major labels have, at this time at least, have fairly sewn up the avenues of the media, they own it all so obviously they have it all sewn up– obviously it’s not a coincidence that on new years eve ABC TV had their New Year’s Rockin’ Eve with Dick Clark reporting from Times Square, which is sort of the traditional new years thing, but they also reported in from Disneyworld, but they’re owned by Disney! So of course, that’s why suddenly disneyland is the same thing as Times Ssquare. It’s all so disgusting. So the idea that somebody in wherever, whether they’re in a small town somewhere in the middle of america or in Pakistan or whatever, if they’re interested, and they want to check out Fugazi, I want it out there. I don’t want them to have to pay some service to get to it and listen to it and hopefully that would compel them to do further research. I mean, how cool would it be to know that there’s some kid in Pakistan who downloaded all our records and listens to them all the time– I’m happy, I don’t give a damn. I mean the argument against it is always just monetary, and again, that’s the least interesting aspect of music for me.

    HOLMES: So, you just said that you see networks like that as a library, as a resource, but other people, not all people, but some people see the music they make as their property and they’re worried that if we don’t lock it down, there won’t be an incentive to create more music. And some folks in the music industry are actually saying that the music industry’s decline means that music is in decline.
    “I may have written the song, so I think, ‘I authored that song’ but it’s not property, it’s not property for anybody!”

    IAN:I don’t agree with that at all, either one of those sentiments. If people lose their incentive to make music because they’re not making money, they’re not musicians. They’re business people. Musicians don’t have a choice in the matter, you gotta make music. There’s no choice! It’s not a fucking job description, there’s no choice! You make music because it’s what you do and the idea that it’s sort of like saying that, “Well, this person is an artist, they’re a painter, but because they can’t sell their paintings they’re going to quit.” If they do, they’re not artists! They’re business people. I have to say that I feel like music, when I make music, the creation aspect of it, that may be my experience. I may have written the song, so I think, “I authored that song” but it’s not property, it’s not property for anybody! Now if I make a record, if I make a CD of that song, that’s property because I paid to make it. And if I sell that property, the money that comes back is my money– I’ll take that money and I’ll share it with the other people involved in making that CD. But this is my position: you can sell CDs, you can sell records and tapes, and you can sell mini-discs if you’re foolhardy, and you can sell mp3s and digital downloads, you can sell all of these things, but you can’t sell music because music is free. I’m serious about that. I really believe that. Music is like air, you can’t sell it. I know that people have, not to fall back to my oft-used metaphors and analogies, but this is the way I process things, but I see music as a river, and the water in a river is there for everyone and anyone that wants to have a sip can have a sip and have some water. Now somewhere along the line someone came up with the idea of putting the river water in bottles and selling the bottles of water. That’s the record industry. Music is a river, music is water, and the bottling company is the industry, and it’s not inherently evil, because it’s frankly, convenient to have water in a bottle, so if you’re driving in your car and you’re thirsty you don’t have to drive to the nearest river and take a sip, you can just reach down and take a sip out of your bottle. The same way if I’m driving in my car and I want to hear a song, I don’t have to drive over to the people’s house and ask them to play it for me, I can put the CD in and listen to it, or turn on the radio. Where it gets ugly is that when the bottling company, since their aim is to make money– at some point they may have thought like, “Let’s bottle this water and that way we can share the healthful qualities of water with all the people.” At some point it becomes, “This is our industry, we need to make money, and how can we increase profits?” Well, the way to increase profits is to try to discourage people from going to the river, and having to buy the bottled water. And they’ll start with that but eventually what they’re going to get into is they’re going to start blocking the river or they’re going to poison the river. But water is always moving, and it’s very difficult to poison a river, very hard indeed. And that’s the good news about music, it can’t be stopped, it will always happen, people will always make music, and regardless of whether or not there’s money to be made form it or not, it’s still going to happen, it can’t be stopped. So in my mind with the sales of records, the industry has done their best to claim ownership of music but they don’t– they only own the things that they sell, so when people who are songwriters say, “That’s my property and if you give it away for free then I lose my incentive,” then, well, good riddance.”

    Well, now we know that you are greedy bastards in the eyes of some indie musicians.

37. On April 20th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
    John-Michael Bond said:

    Wow. Just wow man. Ian is in a different situation than Eyeball. Ian has money. Is he a multimillionaire? No. But he’s sold, yes little Tommy SOLD, a fuck load of records. Fugazi, Jawbox, Shudder to Think etc made him a pretty penny, even selling his records for 10 or 8 bucks a pop. Having money, owning your own house makes things a little different.

    The difference between what Ian is talking about and the real world *you’ll learn about this once you get out of your parents house) is bills. Music will always exist. Fuck dude I could buy a $200 four track and have a new free record up every week. But I couldn’t tour off that. I couldn’t print shirts. I couldn’t live off of it.

    Oh and last of all. SHE IS 16. OH NO! OH WAH! She’s grown up enough to fuck over a lot of bands I love. She can deal with a slap on the wrist.

38. On April 20th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
    Chris Vandeviver said:

    What a bunch of twerps! It kills me how angry these individuals get over this. Look-

    If I, being 23 years old– having phone bills, rent, electric bills, grocery needs, in need of money to hang out with my girlfriend and friends, have to scrape up cash to buy a laptop, music equipment, books, etc etc– can handle paying for CDs (all on a near minimum wage job!!), I think you can all do the same. Since there is a good chance most of you suck your parents dry for whatever it is you think you need money for, in lieu of your music consumption, you’re kidding yourself. Sure, downloading is helpful for getting a band recognized on a broader scale. But with Myspace, and Purevolume, and iTunes, and label websites, and- well, the list goes on- I don’t think it’s been all that difficult a time anymore for you folks to find out if you like a band.

39. On April 20th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
    Megan said:

    :( Assholes.

40. On April 20th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
    .. said:

    i bet alot of the people bitching about how downloading hurts the people who make the music are in really crappy bands i.e. the number 12 looks like you, there should be a fucking lawsuit about bands ripping off other bands. the number 12 needs to turn off the fall of troy albums and write their own shit.

41. On April 20th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
    alice said:

    This is ridiculous.

    How are you going to go after the blogs that are creating the buzz around your bands? It’s rather cutting off your nose to spite your face. And it’s not going to work.

    I’m pro-downloading. Most of the music I listen to now I’ve found through downloading. And I’ve spent a lot of money on pursuing the artist’s music: tickets to gigs, cds bought later (after hearing downloads), merchendise etc etc. I wouldn’t even have heard of half of it without downloading: struggling artists and underground bands are exposed to a wider audience, and are often given the breaks and popularity they wouldn’t have gained otherwise.

    It’s not exactly the artist who complains about downloading, the artist makes roughly a dollar for each record sold and that is split up within the band. It’s the record labels who bitch about not getting that $1 from that CD. The bands themselves benefit from gig-tickets and merchandise more than from CDs, anyway.

    Incidentally, all the abuse from (largely) the anti-downloaders in these comments rather cheapens their ’superior’ moral high-ground and ‘get-over-it’ music professional ‘tudes. Have that.

42. On April 20th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
    Kristen said:

    This has got to be the most idiotic thing ever.
    The only reason half these bands even have a fanbase is because of sites like these.
    People don’t pirate music with an intention of hurting bands, or to be a “rebel”, or some stupid crap like that.
    We do it because we love music. Despite what anyone thinks, we cannot control it.
    Newsflash: YOU CANNOT GET HALF THE STUFF WE DOWNLOAD IN STORES.
    How else are we supposed to get it?
    I have purchased over 100 CDs.
    And it’s all mostly mainstream stuff because that’s all they sell around here. Boo hoo. Your losing some money. But your bands are gaining fans.
    Oh, and how unfair is it you assume the # times accessed for The Number 12 & New London Fire?
    If it’s unknown, you cannot just assume in attempt to get more money out of it.
    She’s a 16 year old girl who likes music and wants to share her knowledge with people.
    Don’t be so hard-headed,

43. On April 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
    jason said:

    “She’s a 16 year old girl who likes music and wants to share her knowledge with people.”

    There are plenty of people like this who only post one or two songs at most (see Aversiononline.com) and yet are ENTHUSIASTIC about music. There are ways to promote music without hurting artists. Using her age is a simple cop out and she clearly knows what she is doing by putting this music up for people to check out. I remember back when I was 15, maybe 16, I had a small blog that no one read and I would post MP3s that I wanted people to check out. I knew what I was doing and even though I was only posting one or two songs, I still wanted to get the word out to people.

    Yes, I download music but I also buy tons of CDs still. I go to one to two shows a week, spend too much money on vinyl/shirts and all that stuff as well. I know that is a terrible excuse but unfortunately it’s the current state of things.

    It’s not even a matter of the label being hard on the girl, it’s a matter of teaching people the important of copyrights. An artist has the right to protect how they want their material to be distributed. Sure, there are bands using Creative Commons and allowing people to share music, and more power to them if they decide to do that. But kids need to understand exactly the law they are breaking by distributing something that isn’t theres to distribute.

44. On April 20th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
    from561to678andback said:

    To everyone out here I hear your point on either side of the monetary issue. I record bands for a living out of my studios in Atlanta, GA and West Palm Beach, FL and what I’ve come to say has nothing to do with these ethics but more to do this love I have for music. In my industry I get to see first hand how labels and bands correlate. My whole career is based on my love for music, and unfortunately coincides with my necessity to survive. I would do what I do for free and have in the past. My personal goal is to be able to find the midway point between these extremes to ultimately allow the people to find unknown bands and fall in love with them. I was a frequent visitor to kinixtion, tramalikerain, and cdscompletosdownloads among others and I found some of the most amazing bands I’ve heard and I can safely say that these mediums need to exist. Every so often I would download an album, start contacting the band to tell them they have my support and actually convinced many of them to book dates in my town(s) on tour based solely on the support I would have for them by spreading the word. It only takes a spark to start an inferno, but the fuel needs to be these blogs. Thank all of you for your thoughts. Any questions go to tramalikerain.blogspot.com and leave me a comment. Thank you!

45. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
    catie said:

    Eyeball records is horrible anyway.

46. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
    Uhhh said:

    You all are stupid. This is one idiotic argument. Bands make music for people to hear it. If people hear by downloading it then so what. The record labels go bankrupt. Bands break up. ……….. People will find a way. If they love making music. If you want to hear it. There will be some kind of change maybe a shift from record labels to something completely different. But for now all you can is argue apparently.

47. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
    Devin said:

    Yea you show those people who like the music. You fuss them out and piss them off. That’ll make your record sales go up.

48. On April 20th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
    Eyeball Records - Music Banter said:

    […] Eyeball Records …sucks the c0ck. IndieHQ [Eyeball Records brings down music blog/pirating site, Kinixtion] Anyway it’s got me think that musicbanter is sharing based not greediness or laziness but out of like love you know. And with new admin and shit like this I don’t know if that will always be. I honestly think that sharing promotes buying. I wouldn’t listen to 99% of what I listen to if it wasn’t for stealing. __________________ We drink cause we’re lonely. We fuck to stay warm. […]

49. On April 20th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
    untitled said:

    this is ridiiculous. loads of people download things to see if they like it. then, they just go out and buy the album if they enjoy it. this is all so dumb. i don’t care if they’re IS morons out there downloading and not buying albums but most people don’t so eff you.

50. On April 20th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
    Scott said:

    “i don’t care if they’re IS morons out there downloading and not buying albums but most people don’t so eff you.”

    Looks like we found one of those morons right here.

51. On April 20th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
    Erik's Manthong said:

    So somewhere within neo-Maddox’s tyrannical rant, I did get a better understanding for how a record label works. Oh and that walking into Best Buy and walking out with a new HP is bad.

    Hey asshole, you’re speaking to an audience of deaf ears. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Congrats, you’ve upstaged idiots trying to defend a 16 year old who can’t learn (or claims, it seems) right from wrong. In otherwords, you’ve pissed off pirates who will just learn from their mistakes, and share in smarter methods. Have I pirated things before?

    I’ve downloaded music for free before, and I’ve sure as hell bought music before. Infact, I’ve made more purchases on music because I was able to preview their works before shelling out the cash for something that could have been a waste of money and anticipation. Make sure to reread that, and then consult your multi-paragraph of PMS semi-intellectual horse shit, and see if someone hit your bulletproof argument right on the nose. I will feed you the line about “how will I know I’ll like it, or the entire CD?” because its 100% true.

    You say you shouldn’t own a car that you didnt buy, but what if 2 drives into it, you discover that, because you didnt take enough time to really get a look at what you bought, you really don’t like the interior, and will be unsatisfied now with that purchase? Yeah I feel the same way when a highly anticipated album is about to hit, and I dish out money to hear 3 amazing tracks, 7, sub-par tracks, and 4 filler/weird instrumentals? Now, Im only taking a $10-15 piece of plastic to a large scale argument because you did. Mr. High and Fucking Mighty, I downloaded Billy Talent’s self titled and decided, because I got so into it, that I really should put money towards people who deserve it. Another example: my CD art for Fear Before The March of Flames’ “Art Damage” was destroyed, and I decided that because this band was someone I really hoped to see suceed and earn a living doing what they love, that I’d pay another $14 to have another CD along with a new booklet with pictures of a shower drain with blood in it, a sky, and a few other arbitrary images on top of lyrics here and there.

    Not good enough? Well not only did I buy 2 releases by TNTLLY after hearing a song from each, I have hit every show that they play in my area since Nuclear.Sad.Nuclear. hit stores. Oh and bought a shirt each time. So if that’s not good enough to feed the starving execs, I am sorry. Really, I actually am, because I do what I can to support bands who I think deserve a shot to make the music they love on top of great experiences along with a positive following and a comfortable financial situation (because I know musicians/labels can hit rock bottom or see the top of the world with some risks). That wasn’t intended as a sarcastic remark either, I respect and feel for you guys, I really do. Thats some impressive, risky and more often than not scary shit you guys do, and you don’t get the credit you deserve. I respect the bands just the same, and can honestly apologize and feel like dirt for having downloaded anything illegally from them or their labels. I haven’t acquired enough legally to make an individual impact (like aforementioned 16 year old girl), but am aware that I’ve taken part in a worldwide unfair fight to the music production industry.

    I guess you can only say people can do what they can, but either way I’m just trying to offer insight towards the people who wont see both sides. You didn’t win anything with your huge factual storm, you just bored me among others. I will continue to support downloading, but tell me how you can download a show ticket, a T-Shirt, or the actual CD inserts printed on special paper? Yeah you can’t. And I won’t try if it’s not worth doing so. I wouldn’t have any pride wearing my limited edition Genghis Tron shirt if I didnt pre-order Dead Mountain Mouth last June. I will probably continue to download things, but only as a sampling measure. Until then, to the bigmouths such as the one on this page, I’m sorry you probably camped all day after that tedious response looking for someone to combat. Talk about a worthless uphill battle. To the labels, I’m sorry you guys are getting raped, I really am. But to you and the bands, when I hear those amazing songs, I buy your shit. I promise.

52. On April 20th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
    Lisa said:

    Wow, I doubt my comments will be seen but anyway….

    I see both sides. I think the letter could have been more professional and maybe people wouldn’t think the writer was an ass. But he did have a right to ask that the blog be removed. Saying it was in violation woulda been sufficient, I think, but I guess sounding this way made it sound more important.

    Before the internet, I would spend a fortune on CDs only to find ONE song was all I wanted. I assumed the majority of the CD would be good, but in most cases, I was wrong (unless it was a greatest hits CD). Some people can’t work for whatever reason and don’t get paychecks, so they can’t run out and buy every new CD they want. Nowadays you can preview a CD in the store, but what about those with social phobias who can’t stand in the middle of an aisle jamming?

    But now we have MySpace and PureVolume to check the songs out. Though, what’s stopping people from using an audio program to record those songs from those sites? They wouldn’t upload them to the net for others to download, but they could save it and not buy a CD. That’s wrong, but nobody yells about it.

    Some bands LIKE being stars on the net. They like being talked about and praised for their music, they ask that people buy the CD, they say TO share the music so they can get known. Others don’t do that. All depends on the artist.

    Since I don’t buy a lot of music because of financial issues (I don’t work but I also refuse to be on welfare to have others pay FOR me), so it’s great to be able to sample some before I buy it (and yes, I do buy CDs if I KNOW it’ll be money well spent). I’ve bought so many CDs I never even listen to more than once, and can’t afford that anymore. I’m glad I have the chance to sample tunes and check out bands I’ve enver heard of before.

    One gripe is that record companies complain that nobody buys CDs, yet I buy one and it has a one-sided sheet (the album cover art) and no lyrics or info of any kind. Make an effort! Put the lyrics and some photos so people have something to look at with their new CD. This happens with popular bands, too. There’s no reason to stick in a simple sheet of paper that’s blank on one side and not make any attempt at a nice presentation. Sure you can download the lyrics and photos from the booklet online, but I like having them in my CD. I’ve always liked that. I’ve actually based my CD choices on how thick the booklet looked.

    But just as the CD buyers rip off the industry, it works both ways. Some stores have a CD for $5 and another has it for $18. How is that fair? Where does the other money go? Who pockets the difference? And what about tape trader stores? If I buy a new CD for full price and go into a bargain store and find it for $2, I’m gonna be a bit annoyed. Should it be fair to sell and resell CDs? The second sale isn’t going to the band, so if I buy it used or download it, the industry doesn’t get a cent, anyway. Why do the stores stay in business?

53. On April 20th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
    Aaron. said:

    lost my business. Records from this label can easily be found all over the internet.

    Google: “band name” “file sharing service”

    sue google? see how far you get? assfucks.

    You can’t do anything about it, the people who have already downloaded the album, will upload it to more interested listeners, and more, and more, and the cycle continues.

    you’ll lose the case, as you will lose many others along your path to “defeat this problem”, and hopefully you’ll go out of business when all your artists flock to other labels because of the bad reputation you’ve received.

    If you want to support the ARTIST buy their merch, not their cds, let’s strangle these fuckers back into reality, the music industry has changed, you dumb fucks just don’t want to accept it.

54. On April 21st, 2007 at 12:13 am
    Andrew said:

    I will now never EVER buy any item from eyeball records. However, it seems that Eyeball records only puts out pure shit, so they my as well take those downloads down. But why are we going after blogs that don’t even post shit off of eyeball records? This is ridiculous. Oh and good luck getting any of your bands exposure. You need the internet (and downloading) to survive.

    Good luck cunts.

55. On April 21st, 2007 at 12:15 am
    Andrew said:

    Etcetera forums has already removed their downloads section in response to thee above. No action is necessary against them, it is now simply a forum.

56. On April 21st, 2007 at 1:51 am
    [iskra] said:

    its so fuckin stupid, this is not punkrock, this is not hardcore, its stupid capitalism! ive seen eyeball records also released an “milemarker” album…whoow how will they think about it? ive seen them several times as an strictly political band, ive seen them destroying a credit card as a sign against capitalistic greed.

    culture, music, art has to be free! to support an artist is important, but it shouldn’t run in an economic order! there are much more ways for supporting an artist! if culture, music, art is just another product, its worthless and i wouldnt support it at all! there should be passion not the thought for getting paid!
    i pay so much, maybe everything i have for culture, books, records, art whatever…but i dont have that much money! if i can get an album for free from friends or whatever and i really like it, sooner or later i would buy it! but i would stop buying from an label who say all their musiclovers are criminals when they cant pay for it and still want to listen to it!

    its a shame that even an small indie label thinks the methods and the greedy way of thinking of the major music companys is alright! after this i wouldnt be supportive at all!

    another really bad bad thing are all these hypocrites here, who list some small musicblogs…you are just lame-ass traitors and squealer! get an job by your local police station and beat up some poor beggars!

57. On April 21st, 2007 at 1:52 am
    ZK said:

    Here what i gotta say to these record companies. The music industry has changed tremendously within the past four-five, where companies, labels and most importantly BANDS, are utlizing the internet in order promote and sell their music. In my opinion the internet is the music business now. With itunes and all the others, more people buy their shit over the net then they do from an actual store. But despite the readyness that is seemingly available through sites, only a handful of artist gain market use of these sites, while many unknowns are left in the dust. With the utilzation of the internet (i.e. blogs, file-sharing programs …whatever) I have been introduced to such a vast amount of music that i would not have known about if itunes and god forbid mtv and vh1 (which “You Outta Know” portions are filled with horrilbly mudane and nearly identical artists) were my only outlets. Yes, I realize that by downloading ilegally, we are hurting the bands and the labels, but i have to argue, that in my case because of this downloading, i have purchased more albums, more merchandise and gone to more shows then most people in thier lifetimes. And point in fact, Bands typically get more money from thier merchandise then they do from album residuals. However, I am one of the lucky ones, living in one of the musical cultural stews of America, California, where music is much more acessible to me then individuals in the heartland and other countries. Most of those kids don’t often get the chance to see their favorite bands, or even here of many bands at all. Trust me I grew up back east and the only thing i had their was the top forty countdowns at night. My question is, how are labels and bands going to match the amount of exposure that these file sharing outlets have given. Not too many people have the free time to browse through the internet, look for every major and indie label that is around and go to each band, past and present and see what they would like to buy nor would they have the time to flip through the radio stations and hope to God that they find a station not playing the same five songs over and over again. By completly ridding the internet of these outlets (which i don’t think will ever happen) you deny virtually any amount of exposure that has come from this sites. Lets ask eyeball records to tell all their artist to shut down all their websites, myspaces, purevolumes and what ever other internet functions and see how the label will last on basic promotion or better yet lets just see how they’ll do now, because I would argue that most people don’t even know who the fuck eyeball records is, at least in my case, i didn’t even know until i saw promotion for the label on some of these sites. The labels need these programs and sites, look at Napster for godsakes, they got rid of it but brought it back because it was marketable, but i bet it is not as nearly effective as it was when it first came out and i bet record sales have gone decreased even more since the record companies and “certain bands” who should shut the fuck up, butt their noses into it and compared twelve year old kids to terroists, driving people away. Bands should be happy that people are listening to their music and going to their shows and buying their merchandise, trust me i am a musician too, and i know how hard it is, but lets face the COLD HARD TRUTH: COMPANIES, LABLES AND BANDS, NEED LISTENERS IN ORDER TO CONTINUE, and when you make it harder for people to listen, LABELS and BANDS suffer, not us. Sure, take away the music, it doesn’t bother me none, becuase I don’t need to hear bands music, bands need me to hear their music and promote and support them. So lets see how well you’ll do Eyeball after all this, that is, after all the money you get from the little girl. Just pray lables that someone has the williness to listen, because you benefit from the album sales, but lets see how well you do when you have bands no one even knows. In the meantime, i am going to import/burn some friends cd’s onto my itunes, because if this outlet is gone, i always have another, and remember there is always blank cassette tapes in the end!

58. On April 21st, 2007 at 1:57 am
    Anon said:

    U guys are fucking whores… they put a disclaimer up there, after downloading, i really do buy if the album is good… what fuckers

59. On April 21st, 2007 at 3:47 am
    elly said:

    i have a band.. and my opinion.. label were the pirate to all bands!!! fuck you eyeball records!! label just making money from the band.. u should asshame u basterd tweet!
    LABEL = KING OF PIRATE!! FUCK YOU!

60. On April 21st, 2007 at 4:15 am
    mark said:

    record labels are greedy and want has much money has possible downloading albums does not really affect sales an example would be machine heads the blackening in which you could download a full 2 months before release and went on to be the biggest selling album for the band after it’s origional release date.
    I also add that i download albums and i do this to find out if i like them if i don’t i don’t waste my money if i do i go and buy the album and support the band by seeing them on tour or buying merch.
    Plus if there gonna stop this then they might has well try and sue people for lending or ripping a cd for a mate, there will allways be way to share music.

61. On April 21st, 2007 at 4:29 am
    vih said:

    I really comply with you from eyeball records,about going after those blogs and everything that ‘can go against your laws’,but it’s really impossible catchin’ all those blogs around.You should really look on others side,i actually live in Brazil,and cd’s here are really,really expensive, especially the new ones,are about R$35,i’m one of the guys that download the record first,and if I liked it,i actually buy.Just for that,I think you should run after guys that post cd’s that weren’t even released by you,that’s fair.I really enjoy helping small bands buying their cd’s,thats fair,specially if they’re good.

62. On April 21st, 2007 at 4:59 am
    [iskra] said:

    maybe we all should stop buying records from labels like this! fuck eyeball records!!! its a shame that these people say they are independent, alternative, underground or whatever! they are as big and as greedy as these big major companies! i can understand that you want to make a living out of it, but this should work without to threat people with law! these people love the music maybe as much as the label and the internet culture has changed the world of culture, music, art and their distribution! art should be no product, it should be expression available for everyone!!! i really thought that every artist just wants to be heard?!

    but eyeball records just want to sell everything? shame on you!

63. On April 21st, 2007 at 6:04 am
    robbie said:

    Yeah it’s just like those bastards playing their instruments on the street corner, why should they expect us to throw money at them when I can listen to them play for free, they’re not in it for the music, they just want to guilt us into getting them another meal.

    You people are idiots. Have any of you ever tried running a small business, can any of you in good conscience say that you would not be a little angry if you were running a label and you were put you in the same situation? These people make a living off music, and you don’t make a living giving things away for free or nearly free, there has to be some profit made. Does making money or having a job make you “capitalist slime”? Do you people take 90% of your paycheck and just give it all to the first person you see? I’m sorry but these people gotta eat, and I’m sure they’re not driving around sports cars and living in million dollar homes (I think Virgil drives a taurus). But so what if they want to, I mean the audacity for them to want some luxury in their humble lives by asking you to pay for some music they put their heart and soul into to get out.

    The fact all you people are turning on eyeball and their actions in general sickens me to no end, I think you must all have guilty consciences.

64. On April 21st, 2007 at 7:27 am
    Sami said:

    I think it’s a sad day when it comes to these petty arguments. I regularly download music, and it’s not like it means I buy less music - you should see the massive stack of CDs I own. I just bought the Suburban Home 50 for 50 deal, ffs, even though I live in the UK and had to pay for shipping over.

    The music world is changing. This will be going ahead, no matter how many sites you take down. What you should be doing is trying to work with the new technology, not destroying any form of it the first chance you get. Like try to get all these sites to make sure they only put up really bad quality rips, and a link to buy the CD so if they like it, they can… stuff like that.

    Use your brains!

65. On April 21st, 2007 at 7:49 am
    Randy said:

    For the record, if Ian MacKaye has money ands own his own home, it’s because of dedication to his craft, perserverance, and the ability to create music that is good, thus well-received.

    The last thing I want to do as a consumer is buy shitty CD’s from shitty bands. All that does is create a false sense of buzz that the record labels pick up on and sign thousands of crappy bands. The labels have created their own problem by making financial commitments to bands that, honestly, don’t have a chance due to their inability to create good music that people actually want to hear. Downloading (which I agree should be done for “preview” purposes only) is the only chance a band has these days of creating a fan base. Major labels, indie labels, it doesn’t matter. Concentrate on signing good bands that can create three or four succesful albums that people will actually want to hear (and buy, and support live).

    The flaws in the industry are YOUR fault - not the consumers. We’re smarter than you think. I can’t trust a label like Victory, who promotes almost all their bands as the next “big thing”, when they know damn well almost every artist on their label is average at best. Why do you want us to not actually hear your bands before we buy their albums? The answer? You want to sucker-punch as many teenage scensters as you can by making them fill your pockets by spending their money on crap. Check yourselves - your business plans - and your greed-driven plans to destroy good music. You’re the one fucking us over, not vice-versa.

66. On April 21st, 2007 at 8:06 am
    Randy said:

    …and to answer Robbie, my conscience is perfectly clean.

    I work just as hard at my job as does any active musician. Guess what - I get paid after successful completion of my job. Not just completion - SUCCESSFUL completion. If I suck at my job, I won’t have that job for long. There’s a big difference between doing something and doing something WELL. If I displease my boss, he has every right to reprimand me and even fire me. The labels need to follow that philosophy. Just because you chug out as many records as possible doesn’t mean you’ve done your job. We, the consumers, want SUCCESSFUL albums that are worth our investment. It’s the “job” of the label exec to ensure that happens. Get your head out of your asses and quit singing me your “poor, starving artists” song. Good albums will create good sales - despite what you think the internet and downloading has done to your forlorn industry. Impress me (and the rest of us music listeners) and we will buy any product worth the investment. Guaranteed.

67. On April 21st, 2007 at 8:40 am
    harrharr said:

    In light of this, it looks like I’ll be “buying” the next Number 12 record from a different “store”

68. On April 21st, 2007 at 9:17 am
    Dave said:

    RANDY YOUR THE RADDEST!! COULDN”T SAY IT ANY BETTER

69. On April 21st, 2007 at 10:11 am
    sb said:

    I go with jason, you have got to stop downloading or you’ll just ruin everything for everybody who likes music. I don’t enter you’re house and steal do I. And the possibillity that the guy is a fat ass is completely unrelated with the fact that it’s wrong to download music. The music is not yours it’s their fucking music, you do not make the music. They own the rights, they put money into it so they can make more music that you could listen to. If you don’t buy their music they can make music only for themselves.

70. On April 21st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
    jason said:

    [iskra] - “i can understand that you want to make a living out of it, but this should work without to threat people with law! ”

    THESE PEOPLE ARE BREAKING THE LAW! what is so hard to understand about that? it is not that girls right to distribute the music. whoever holds the copyright has the right to distribute it however they damn well please, so unless it is released under Creative Commons or a similar license, it isn’t theres to give away for free in the first place. it’s not this girls property and so she can’t just give it away!

71. On April 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pm
    Coolkid said:

    hi, would someone give me probably a few thousand bucks so I can go purchase every single CD that I see that might interest me? Please? Pretty please?

72. On April 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pm
    Cody said:

    I think, of all people, an indie label executive should know the power of the internet and word-of-mouth. It sickens me to see label executives, especially indie label executives, try and fight against the river of technology. Quite frankly, you cannot and will not win, and, if anything, with the right attitude and approach, you can benefit from file sharing. Blog downloads only account for a miniscual fraction of all downloads, and typically speaking these are the true-blue fans who care enough to go out and find the music that they love. You could use these blogs to advertise your label, upcoming shows, new merchandise, and just generally expand your fanbase, but all in one fell swoop you just made everyone hate your essence. Music isn’t free, but music isn’t yours Mr. Bigshot Label Executive, and don’t act like the music wouldn’t go on just fine without you. Labels are conviniences, and if they are no longer so convinient in the digital age, then maybe it’s time you realize your place and start embracing the new face of music. I’m sure your pocketbooks speak louder than my words, but the loudest speakers are rarely the truest.

    Sincerely,
    Cody

73. On April 21st, 2007 at 4:25 pm
    ema said:

    weak!!!!!
    i can understand getting pissed that your album isn’t selling because people just download it for free. but you shouldnt be forced to buy some crap album just because people are being crybabies about the whole situation. the majority of albums i buy you cannot hear on the radio. i am not just randomly going to throw money at you. if i like an album, i buy it on vinyl. if not then i probably just delete the crappy mp3s.

74. On April 21st, 2007 at 4:30 pm
    Ryan F. said:

    When Lars Ulrich went to such neurotic lengths as to track the Gnutella users who were downloading Metallica albums so as to attempt to bring them to court–it was half expected to say the least (especially for a machismo drummer in an über-rich band that is getting out-wailed by kids a third of his age). But when someone with pretensions to indie-rock takes this form of machismo to a 16 year old girl, what is there left to say but that the word “Indie” has been made at least as meaningless as the word “music” is when applied to Metallica. I pretty much agree with everything people have been saying about music blogs being one of the best ways for lesser known bands to gain exposure, in addition to it being something that will lead to more support where it counts–namely, concerts, concert commodities, etc. However, those who privilege the Law over music are confusing obedience with art and the support of artists. When I spend money on an album or the cost of a ticket, I like knowing that it’s going to an artist and not a record label that’s willing to sic their lawyer-dogs on teen-agers.

75. On April 21st, 2007 at 5:13 pm
    zrc said:

    i really don’t think that removing download links is gonna boost sales at all, so why bother, just because you took down a link to one of your bands (and i must admit most of the signed bands are bullshit), doesn’t mean people aren’t going to download it. i also think it’s fucking weak how you guys claim it’s to put food in some kids mouth, fuck off, i got no sympathy, if you’re going to be a musician (talented or not in the case of eyeball), deal with it. another fact is that, if eyeball even won a court case, not a cent of the money would go to the band, and nor would sales increase, just because you shut some fucking blogs down. why waste the time and effort trying to increase sales in such a petty manner, and try and act as if you’re so fucking righteous and that you actually give a shit if some little kid gets dinner (which in the circumstances is the most sympathy whoring statement). maybe if you’re such martyrs you should spend the money you get from this and go feed kids in africa.

76. On April 21st, 2007 at 6:52 pm
    Jason said:

    “i can understand getting pissed that your album isn’t selling because people just download it for free. but you shouldnt be forced to buy some crap album just because people are being crybabies about the whole situation. the majority of albums i buy you cannot hear on the radio. i am not just randomly going to throw money at you. if i like an album, i buy it on vinyl. if not then i probably just delete the crappy mp3s.”

    Does that mean when you go into a restaurant, order a dish you’ve never had before and don’t really like it, you walk out of the place without paying your check? Every time?

77. On April 21st, 2007 at 7:43 pm
    Grant said:

    Here’s what this all boils down to. Forget about the tangibles and intangibles, forget about what percentage of people buy music as a result of downloading first, forget about all that shit. What happened here is a girl was distributing music illegally. One of the labels she ripped off wrote to her to get her to stop. She did. Why are we still discussing this?

78. On April 21st, 2007 at 9:47 pm
    Jack said:

    We are still discussing this because it is obvious that a set of technologies are evincing the fact that the mode of production of music is in a period of transition. Labels like Eyeball apparently seem to feel pretty insecure about this and are pulling the conservative reactionary line that we’ve heard from authority figures in so many different guises for so long, “OBEY! IT’S THE LAW!” when we all know that this rhetorical tactic alone should give us pause and reconsider to what extent these people are really there for the purpose of the FURTHERING of art or the REGULATION of art. The way I see it, you would have to argue that art is fundamentally subordinate to the Law to make the case that Grant is articulating. Otherwise, you have to be open to the fact that what is illegal is not necessarily in any way contrary to the promotion of art. Just think of Crass when they had the pigs harassing them for violating the profanity codes in Britain or The Dead Kennedy’s when Frankenchrist landed them in criminal charges for distribution of harmful matter to minors. These are obviously different cases, since they fall under the legal issues of censorship (and hence the relation of the law to production and not consumption), but I think they demonstrate two points. First, law and art have a history of tension (do I need to go on to cite Plato and Michaelangelo?), that is, what is in the interest of the law is sometimes (if not always) against “interests” of art. Two: censorship, though pertaining primarily to the legality of the production of art, implies the legality of the consumption of art (to put it crassly).

    With regard to music blogs and the like, the issue that is being pushed here is this: what grounds are there by which to censor aesthetic consumption without reference to the law (i.e., without becoming a cop)?

    Now, the derivative issue is the one that has been floating around already: is it the case that music blogs et al. are beginning to do more to promote bands than the traditional means of promotion? This is a question that needs time to answer itself. However, what is certain is that the pre-emptive strikes against music blogs will prevent this from being answered genuinely, which potentially signifies that this is a matter of law, control, and order–and NOT art–for labels like Eyeball. Given the perverse pleasure of the rep. from Eyeball in being able to flash their badge and whip out their linguistic beating stick, my guess is that in this case it’s not about art, but about power.

79. On April 21st, 2007 at 9:52 pm
    Jack said:

    Sorry, first sentence should say:

    “We are still discussing this because it is obvious that a set of technologies are evincing the fact that the mode of the *distribution* of music is in a period of transition.”

80. On April 21st, 2007 at 10:11 pm
    tess said:

    Has anybody actually asked the bands if they agree with this? maybe some of the bands on eyeballrecords are fine with music piracy and can see the benefits out of it

81. On April 21st, 2007 at 10:46 pm
    Jack said:

    good question, tess

82. On April 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 am
    Josh said:

    In a way the term indie record label is kinda really fucking retarded.
    If the band is so underground and independent how come they have to depend on a label to do their shit for them.

    But yeah if it werent for the internet and blogging sites and stuff.
    Indie music would still be exactly what the term indie is all about;
    indpendent artists selling cds themselves, setting up shows themselves, and being INDEPENDENT.

    So basically Eyeball what I am saying is i know that you’re losing money.
    I know you probably, to quote MC Lars “losing a flat screen TV if you drop the ball”,
    but you have to look at the other end of the spectrum as well.

    It’s like being homeless and asking a man for food and them giving you a full course meal, then 2 years later the same man being homless and asking you for a sandwhich and you kicking him in the mouth.

    Just think about it.
    I’m not saying let kids walk all over you with parading around your music.
    But just find some common ground is all.

83. On April 22nd, 2007 at 12:38 am
    Jason said:

    I hope someone steals something from you soon.

84. On April 22nd, 2007 at 2:28 am
    kera said:

    Seriously, there was no such need to be such a ass to the kid. I think at least a more polite letter would have done the trick.

85. On April 22nd, 2007 at 2:28 am
    kera said:

    As well, I mean.

86. On April 22nd, 2007 at 9:10 am
    Phantom said:

    Seeing how im a Artist myself and do my own everything (Advertising, sales, distrubution, etc.) I know the hardships and i know money comes everyonce in a while. In this case though, i will say one thing, By law eyeball only could sue google for these actions, then google could have sued kinixtion. But there are laws at hand these days like certain disclaimers that prevent anyone from bringing it down. I dont think promoting music is bad. It want make us money, but it will get our names out. I do it for the love of the music, not always the money, i have a second job that i enjoy, and all artist do, only the sell outs sit around and bitch about royalties….

87. On April 22nd, 2007 at 10:06 am
    Karl said:

    I’d like someone to explain to me how posting an entire record is somehow equated with “free advertisement” for the label. Isn’t that why labels post tracks on their websites and myspace pages and whatnot?

    People need to wake the fuck up; if a