IndieHQ / Article Detail

April 16th, 2007

Interview with Seth Hyman of Negative Progression Records

I would like to share with you the following interview I did with Seth Hyman of Negative Progression Records. I have known Seth for close to 8 years now and in that time, Seth and I have not only worked together (we used to handle distribution for NPR), but I consider him one of my closest friends. We speak a couple times a week to bounce ideas off each other and to discuss our frustrations with running a record label. One of the reasons I started this label interview series is to show readers what labels of all sizes have to say about the state of the music industry. Negative Progression is definitely one of those smaller labels, but as you read, you will see that Seth has some very interesting thoughts on running a label, what he looks for in future bands, and he discusses his decision to broaden the sound that Negative Progression puts out.

Seth has put out a number of releases which includes acts like Over It, Counterfit, The Goodwill, and more recently One Way Letter, Amity, The Progress, and soon Desoto Jones and The Subtle Way.

Please take the time to read this interview and definitely check out what Seth has going on. Thanks Seth for taking the time to do this interview.

IndieHQ: When did your label start?
NPR: Negative Progression became a “real” label in 1998 with the release of our first CD, the “Oldies BUT Goodies” compilation. Before that I released a couple 7″ records for bands I was in. I was really fortunate at the time to have another relatively new label called Vagrant Records distribute that compilation. It was one of the first punk cover comps that are so common these days. It had unreleased versions of 1950s songs by MxPx, Face to Face, Good Riddance, Gob, Autopilot Off, Bracket among others. I wrote letters to bands, went to shows super early or stayed really late to talk to the bands, and a couple bands even had e-mail addresses at the time which was rare. I donated part of the royalties to the Earth First! Organization which is a grass roots environmental group.

After that, bands started sending me demos and I wanted to share some of the great songs I heard with the world.

IndieHQ: What inspired you to start the label?
NPR: As I mentioned, I was in a few bands that recorded demo tapes and we had trouble finding someone to release it. Looking back, there weren’t nearly as many labels (or bands), but we didn’t try very hard. It’s funny because back then (early/mid-90s), you didn’t think of “getting signed.” Most bands just wanted to have a 7″ released or maybe an EP. It was so rare for a punk band to be able to do it professionally, that it wasn’t even a thought that crossed most band’s minds. So different from today, damn you Blink 182 and Fall Out Boy.

Anyway, I was very involved in the straight edge hardcore scene at the time, even though I was in a pop punk band, and a couple of my friends put out records. I was very into Minor Threat, Ebullition, Revelation, DIY, etc. so I asked them how they did it and after releasing the 7″’s, I decided it would be fun to take it to the next level and release a CD. I think this is similar to most labels. At first I had no intention of starting a label, I just wanted to put out a couple records and do a few ads in Maximum Rock n Roll and Punk Planet. As things grew, I became more inspired to go to the next level.

Even though it sounds cheesy, my biggest inspiration is the bands that I have worked with. They are like your kids. You love em, they make you angry sometimes, and you care about them even when they don’t deserve it. It’s all because you have such high expectations for them. Maybe inspiration isn’t the right word, maybe it’s addiction.

IndieHQ: Where is your label based?
NPR: My label was started in Atlanta, moved to Boston, is currently based in San Francisco, but in a few months, it will be moving with me to NYC. Do you do the label full time?
I don’t do the label full time although running a label is basically a full time job. Hopefully some day I will be able to.

IndieHQ: What don’t most people know about you/your label?
NPR: I am graduating from law school May 11, 2006. Law school has been a difficult task by itself, but to run a label as well has been a battle. Josh Trustkill tried to warn me, but I wouldn’t listen.

Also, I think most people don’t know that I am really into hardcore and metal. Negative Progression has always put out indie, pop-punk and emo and I have been hesitant to expand because I wanted to develop a “brand.” Considering the state of the industry, the scene, and NPR, I’m planning on expanding the styles I release to include all the music I enjoy, including hardcore and metal.

Lastly, I think that people don’t really know how small Negative Progression actually is. I have always tried to give an impression (through advertising and promotion) that NPR is bigger than it really is in order to be associated with larger labels. But in reality, it is just me. I have no employees. I do everything myself.

IndieHQ: What active bands are on your label? (please include myspace urls or website urls) Right now my active bands are:

The Subtle Way
Desoto Jones
One Way Letter
The Progress
Amity

In the past I have released records for Over It, Counterfit, The June Spirit, Aberdien, John Connor, The Goodwill, A Burning Water, Little Yellow Box, Little Compass, and Contender.

IndieHQ: What do you look for in a band?
NPR: The number 1 thing I look for are amazing songs. In the past, I have said I have to be literally “knocked out of my chair.” I have signed a couple bands that didn’t “knock me out of my chair” but most have. Touring is also very important to me. Most independent labels can’t get radio or video play (and these days neither can majors thanks to consolidation of media and reality TV). For me to sell records, I need a band to be on the road 150-200 days a year, so it is important when I sign a band they have toured some (i.e. 40-50 dates a year) on their own. Most small band’s biggest misconception is that when they sign to a label, no matter how big or small of a label, they don’t have to work as hard when in fact they have to work 10 times harder.

I’m starting up my own booking agency called Hit the Road booking to help my bands and others, but I need some bands with teeth already poking through those baby gums. Also, if they have a professional looking web “presence” (i.e. website, myspace, facebook, youtube) with tons of traffic that helps a bunch. Also, in the past I have leaned towards signing bands from major metropolitan areas because of the growth potential and retail, but I don’t think it is as relevant these days with retail going down the tubes.

IndieHQ: Have you ever signed a band from a demo?
NPR: I have signed bands from demos. I signed Over It from a demo. Usually when I get a demo I like, I call the band. You connect with a person on the phone in a way you just can’t over e-mail. Generally, I’ll keep my eye on a band after talking to them to see if they are working hard. Playing shows regionally, headlining local shows. A demo is like the resume, it gets you the interview. It’s up to the band to take it from there and show me they are going to be worth signing.

IndieHQ: What advice do you have for bands trying to get your attention?
NPR: If you want my attention, send me a demo. If you are too lazy to mail me a CD, you are definitely too lazy to tour. Or even better, if you are too lazy to look on my website for my mailing address and send me an AIM asking me my address, you are definitely too lazy to tour. Work hard at everything. At your myspace, at building a local fan base, at keeping up contacts with bands, managers, agents. That gets my attention. Unfortunately, it also gets every other label’s attention.

IndieHQ: What band or bands would you kill to work with?
NPR: I would kill to work with no one, murder is against the law. Fall Out Boy, not because I like them, but because they would make me a ton of money and I could put out many amazing new bands that no one has heard of.

IndieHQ: What one marketing/promotions tool do you find is your greatest asset?
NPR: The industry is changing so much and I have heard the phrase “going back to my roots” quite a bit. After doing print ads, banner ads, videos, co-ops and tons of other pointless promotion, I realized a couple months ago that kids only buy records if they hear music they like or see a band they like. From now on my main goal is to push the music. I plan on putting NPR samplers in all my releases even if it increases my per unit cost. Passing out samplers at key venues is important. I’m going to be making samplers specifically for the NPR bands to pass out that are top-heavy with 3 songs from the band passing out the sampler, plus one song from each NPR release. Let’s face it, a band is more interested in pushing their own band than their label, so this method is the best of both worlds.

I would also like to say that I think purevolume is a great asset in marketing. Their bigger front page features have gotten much pricier, but they still have small features that are affordable and effective. Obviously myspace is important, but I think myspace is the biggest culprit in devaluing music. It’s a blessing and a curse. I think there is this subconscious disposability with digital music. That being said, I also have a digital sampler on my myspace page. I am also starting to sell pre-paid digital download cards at my band’s shows with the full color album art printed on the card itself. It also has a lanyard hole so kids can wear it and turn the thing into a walking ad.

IndieHQ: What vendor/manufacturer that you work with do you recommend the most?
NPR: I would recommend Rainbo Records, Dorado Press, Jakprints, Imprint, DiscRevolt, Textango and McGathy Promotions. I like to read Alternative Press, Wonkavision, Pastepunk, Punknews, and Absolutepunk. I drink Coca-Cola, wear Vans, drive a Honda, watch a Sony, own a Mac Powerbook, ride a Bianchi, eat at In and Out, put my ass in Lucky Jeans, enjoy IMAX, fly JetBlue, and am in love with Cadence Clothing.

IndieHQ: What release is your best selling title? How many has it sold?
NPR: My best selling title is Counterfit “Super Amusement Machine For Your Exciting Heart” and it has sold a little more than 5,000 copies.

IndieHQ: Music retail is tough these days, what steps, if any, have you taken to adapt in the post-file-sharing/post-Tower Records music retail landscape?
NPR: I am only manufacturing 1,000 units as a first pressing on any record I release from now on. Depending on the release, in the past I would press 3,000-4,000. I’m also not really sending out promos to press, I will however increase the number of promos I send to bands directly. Bands want their friends on their tours and the first step to bands becoming friends is enjoying each other’s music. As I mentioned above, I am including a NPR sampler in all of my releases in the future. I put a marketing sticker on the front of every release. I am taking less risks with promotion. Without Tower around, retail is bleak. It’s like the elimination of the middle class. On one hand, you’ve got mom and pop stores where you’ll sell a couple if you are lucky and doing co-op’s will cost $5/CD which is a total rip. Then on the other hand, you’ve got the big box stores which are difficult to get into, they charge you a couple bucks per unit, and then they return most of your CDs. Brick and mortar retail has got to totally change or it will die. When a store is making way more from co-op’s than selling music, there is something wrong. Are they in the business of selling music or selling marketing, and if so who is their real customer? The companies I know that are small and doing well are labels with well developed mail order. I just started doing mail order again so I am very excited about that.

IndieHQ: Who handles your distribution?
NPR: Lumberjack-Mordam Music Group is our current distributor.
IndieHQ: What do you see as the future of music sales?
NPR: That’s literally the million dollar question. If I gave you my idea that will screw up my patent application now won’t it. That being said, I think a multi-pronged result will evolve. Congress and the courts will continue to impose restrictions on music pirates, major labels will shrink to the size of Victory, there will be far fewer labels, far fewer bands, fewer people with access to music because it won’t be there. We’ll go back in time to the 1940s-50s. Artists will get signed to record a song and that song will be promoted. Lower cost, lower risk. But how do you sell a refrigerator to an eskimo?

The other option is that Congress can actually do something about the cause of all this, new technology. Before CD burning hardware/software and the internet it was impossible to separate the copyrighted recording from the tangible good (i.e. the record/tape/CD). If this still was the case, trading files in a P2P network would not be a problem because they wouldn’t be music files. DRM technologies are an attempt to make the “stuff” not go down the drain by focusing on the “stuff” (i.e. the recordings) when we should be focusing on fixing the problem itself, the drain. Congress has the power to regulate based on the Copyright Act. I’m not saying that CD burners should be illegal to manufacture because that cat is out of the bag, but perhaps there is a way to look at this problem from the other side of the coin. Everyone is focused on the disc, but to get the recording “free from it’s cage” it takes computer software/hardware. Clearly, the consumer’s control of the intellectual property owned by the copyright holder needs to be limited in some way. After all, music buyers are buying the tangible product (CD/record), but merely licensing the sound recording.

IndieHQ: Are your releases available on Emusic? Why or Why not?
NPR: My releases are on eMusic, Rhapsody, Napster and iTunes. Honestly, iTunes is way better for everyone than eMusic. With iTunes, after royalties and mechanicals, I get $0.60 per song from a $0.70 wholesale. On eMusic, I only get about $0.05 after royalties and mechanicals from a $0.20-0.25 wholesale. Sure, it is better for the consumer to have access to more music for less money, but if the body doesn’t eat, it dies. If digital continues to increase its share of total music sales, which it will, it will be difficult for an indie record label to break even at the iTunes rate, and downright impossible at the eMusic rate. If labels don’t survive, very few bands will be able to record quality songs and get them to a mass audience. The net makes it easier for more people to get music, but without marketing, they’ll never find your songs.

IndieHQ: Are your releases available for streaming on sites like Rhapsody, Napster, and Urge? Why or Why not?
NPR: Streaming is cool. I’m a fan of either streaming 2-3 songs in full or clips of all the songs on an album. I don’t really see that as a money maker in its current form.

IndieHQ: If you could tell the world to buy one release on your label, which one would you tell people to purchase? Why?
NPR: Either The Progress “Merit” or Counterfit “Super Amusement Machine” because they will make you smile. (I second that Counterfit recommend, those guys were amazing, especially live)

Written by Virgil Dickerson